------------------------------------------------------------------ This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ For persons needing CAD (Computer-Aided Design) and CAM (Computer-Aided Manufacturing) detailed information, this file provides a few good hints as to where to seek good help. When I started following CAD/CAM conversations, my intent was to retain some good ideas on file in case I ever computerized a machine tool. After several years it became apparent that almost everything gathered more than a few months ago was largely obsolete. Good programs had been updated so much that they became complex and unfriendly programs; inversely, programs that got users' thumbs down before were now updated and rehabilitated. Companies were coming and going; software and hardware were quickly obsolete. Consequently the group discussions that were kept in this file have been removed, as none were trustworthy anymore as to still being true or current. My suggestion to you is to keep private notes on good ideas you read in any of these groups. When you are close in time to making a decision to buy either software or hardware, do your own research and choose carefully from items discussed in then current -- or fairly recent -- postings. There are a few CAM tips that came up in conversations relating to specific machines or processes, and they remain in those files. While CAD/CAM and related discussions turn up fairly regularly on machine-specific user groups like sherline or taigtools on Yahoo, those groups cater primarily to users with manually operated machines. [The last statement was true until recently. Although I believe the vast majority of machinists in these machine-specific groups are still operating their machines completely manually, the Q & A by CAD/CAM enthusiasts is getting pretty voluminous. The new computerized setups have more problems, and have so many software and hardware issues, that any new user will likely need a great deal of study and help to get started successfully. And those who stay with their manual machines are now finding it a bit more difficult to search the archives for manual problems or solutions, as CNC conversations crop up in the searches.] If the CAD/CAM matter or question is complex, you will likely get a better response by joining CAD/CAM dedicated groups. BEFORE asking a question there like: "I'm new; can anyone tell me everything(!) I need to know about converting my Wizbang Milling Machine to CAM and also tell me the best programs to use and which ones are better and why?" The group will expect you to have the courtesy (and un-laziness) to first read the FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) and all messages in the group archives that have already answered such general questions, over and over and over...already. Read all that and then, if you still have a question, now ask it. At this point you will be more familiar with the technical terms and can ask a question with a better description of the problem you need to solve. And you will then get a better answer to your needs. The following groups discuss home-built and modified CNC equipment. Newcomers will learn a lot at Yahoo's group DIY_CNC A Yahoo group started in 2009 is CNC_DIYMachinery The Yahoo CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO List is where many computerized machine users hang out: Addresses: FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/ Post Messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DROx~xxyahoogroups.com Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribex~xxyahoogroups.com Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribex~xxyahoogroups.com List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-ownerx~xxyahoogroups.com, wanlikerx~xxaol.com Moderator: jmelsonx~xxartsci.wustl.edu timgx~xxktmarketing.com [Moderator] URL to this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO FOR SHERLINE USERS, there is a Yahoo group called SherlineCNC. You can also find CNC info and links through Sherline's home www.sherline.com FOR TAIG/PEATOL USERS, there is a great deal of CNC info available at Nick Carter's site www.cartertools.com along with current related CNC links. The Yahoo group for Taig is called taigtools and does feature a great deal of CNC related information. Users of either brand (or other brands of similar-size machines) will do well to check the other brand's resources for good tips that might be adapted to their own machine. And while on Sherline's or Nick's site, visit the links to their users' home pages; folks have included a wealth of info and pix and how-to's on CNC setups with those machines that do work. Not just theory, but practical experience. And perhaps you do not need full CNC operation but would like to automate one or more axes of a small mill or lathe or rotary table. See Tony Jeffree's device at http://www.jeffree.co.uk/divisionmaster.html If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result of a web search engine, see many additional files on my home page Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. If you do not have those most recent official instructions, acquire a copy through the manufacturer before operating or using their product. Where the company no longer exists, use the appropriate news or user group to locate an official copy. Be careful -- original instructions may not meet current safety standards. Updated safety information and operating instructions may also be available through a local club, a local professional in the trade, a local business, or an appropriate government agency. In every case, use your common sense before beginning or taking the next step; and do not proceed if you have any questions or doubts about any procedure, or the safety of any procedure. Follow all laws and codes, and employ certified or licenced professionals as required by those laws or codes. Hazardous tasks beyond your competence or expertise should also be contracted to professionals. Let's be really careful out there. (c) Copyright 2003 - 2014 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. ========================================================================== NOTE TO FILE: Okay, I said above that I was not going to carry CNC conversations here because so much of the machinery and software is obsolete after a few years, or sometimes after a few months. But this conversation in the taigtools group at Yahoo contains some ideas that are fairly timeless. But please, do join some CNC oriented groups and read first, then ask.... ------- CNC Gurus, More Dork Side... I need: [taigtools] Posted by: "Mike Nicewonger" twmasterx~xxtwmaster.com Date: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:56 pm ((PDT)) (Nick, if you feel this is not the place for these questions please let me know and I'll seek some place else to ask) The utter moron's guide to beginning CNC. Where would you veterans suggest I start reading? Up until recently I never bothered to follow the discussions on this or other lists about CNC related matters. However I find my interest in 'The Dork Side' to be growing. (me shakes fist at Will!) Sometime this summer I am hoping to buy a larger manual milling machine allowing me to convert my 2019ER to CNC. I also need to find work so learning something technical like this may lead to a job. I see ads in the local paper for CNC operators... (if I am smoking crack here please disabuse me of this notion now) I have experience with electronics and computers so if making parts, controllers and wiring is in the needed skill set I've got a leg up. Thanks. Mike N ------- Re: CNC Gurus, More Dork Side... I need: Posted by: "Steve Blackmore" stevex~xxpilotltd.net Date: Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:40 am ((PDT)) >Where would you veterans suggest I start reading? The $50 or so is worth investing in CNC Programming Handbook by Peter Smid ISBN 978-083113347-6 Steve Blackmore ------- Re: CNC Gurus, More Dork Side... I need: Posted by: "Will Schmit" anchornmx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:51 am ((PDT)) Steve suggests the Peter Smid book. I totally agree (to a point). In a way, I think that learning how to run machine tools is a good place to start. If you can't do it with your hands, a stupid machine won't do it any better. Look for back-issues of "Home Shop Machinist" magazine. Read everything on the Gecko Site - FREE Download all the manuals for Mach3 - FREE Keep up with the newsgroups - and watch out for the quiet ones - that's where the magic is. There are a bunch of different "chunks of machinery" that you can use, and they all have their good and bad spots, but the Gecko/Mach team is pretty unbeatable (IMHO). I look at it like the Taig tools -- some would say that there are better, but you are also buying a user community. ------- Re: CNC Gurus, More Dork Side... I need: Posted by: "Paul W. Chamberlain Sr." pwcx~xxhughes.net Date: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:55 am ((PDT)) I'll let other members chip in about current books available... I took NC and CNC at OIT here in Oregon back in the early 80's, and don't have any of the current books. Although I would probably learn a lot if I did. ;o) There are many Yahoo groups for targeted CNC interests... too many to try to list here. There is another forum that has a wealth of resources: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/index.php (Nick is a member there) Another good source for CNC information on the cheap (free) is the Linux based EMC: http://www.linuxcnc.org/ I have their User Manual in my toolbox at work for a quick reference on G and M codes: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/EMC2_User_Manual.pdf ***** To convert your 2019ER to CNC... Nick can provide the MicroProto (CNC division of Taig) components. Other solutions are out there, all the way down to building your own "black box" from pieces & parts. Again, I'll let others chip in about DIY solutions... I got my MicroProto mill fully configured. I have over 25 years training and experience in electronics and computers. When I was ready to get my own machine, I wanted to make parts "now"... not after making the "perfect" machine my anal nature would have driven me to. ;o) Computer software is necessary... how much is up to you. The software falls into three basic classes... CAD (design), CAM (code generation from CAD), and CNC (machine control). Bare minimum is the machine controller (CNC)... the rest can be done by manual methods. CAD can be a simple free to Shareware 2D program, up to a sophisticated 2D/3D Solid Modeling program. I use TurboCAD/CAM with Mechanical Pack. CAM is available in many flavors from free DXF-to-Gcode translators to integrated CAD/CAM software. You will see both 2 1/2D and 3D versions. 2 1/2D is for traditional mill work as would be done on a Bridgeport Knee Mill. 3D is for more "organic" forms such as jewelry design and pattern/mould making for casting. I also have MeshCAM, LazyCAM/Turn, CamBam, and a few others. CNC for the home shop budget boils down to fewer choices: Mach3 and DeskCNC (Windows) EMC (Linux) Various surviving legacy programs (DOS) There are others, but the Windows and Linux versions above are dominate. I have Mach3 and DeskCNC... retired my old DOS version I got from MicroProto. A CNC Syntax Editor is handy, but you can code in any text editor. CNC Syntax Editors range from free to sophisticated programs integrating additional features. I use CodeShark Lite, MDXEdit, or NCPLot depending on the features I need. Another useful software item is a "CNC Simulator" or "Backplotter". It allows you to test your code on the computer, without committing tools and material to "School of Hard Knocks" errors. Again, they range from free to Cadilac versions... some are integrated into programs above. I use CutViewerMill/Turn. ***** When employers advertise "CNC Operator", that may describe a wide range of job descriptions. It may be a minimal wage position that only requires loading material, pushing the "Start" button, and unloading finished parts... while higher level employees do the rest. Others may require traditional machining background, and other skills associated with CNC. My first "CNC Operator" job included machine setup and ability to modify program code, but little else. That was among about 40~50 shop workers, in various departments, and running 3 shifts. I am now in a 4 man shop running 2 overlapping shifts from 6:00am to 5:00pm. We do all the work of those other departments (functions - not quantity), with the exception of powdercoat... which we outsource. We have a FADAL VMC (I'm the primary), Citizen and Tsugami Automatic Swiss machines, Emco FasTurn lathe, Bridgeport VS Knee Mill, 14x40 YAM Engine Lathe, two Hardinge Toolroom lathes, and various other manual machines for material prep, second op, and part finishing. I work with all the machines ... much better than rotating among the six FADAL's at the previous company. The Automatic Swiss machines are a kick to work with... they combine the features of both lathe and milling functions. We just got the Citizen installed a couple of weeks ago and already have a couple of complex part runs done faster than the Tsugami could do... without second ops previously needed, due to more toolholders and spindles available. Having my own machine(s) did contribute to getting my current job 2 years ago... after my homeshop business fell with the economy. I was able to bring sample parts to my interview that showed comparable skills for the kind of parts the company produced. I got the job with decent pay, according to online salary surveys at the time. My job includes machinist (manual), CNC Operator, Machine Setup, CNC Programming, fixture design and fabrication, and alternate Shop Foreman. I do some CAD work, but most of the CAD work is the realm of the Engineers. The down side is work is 40 miles from home. I did have some other advantages... I had worked in the shop for another local company making many of the same parts (Dental Equipment), before that company was bought by a competitor and phased out. I also had the advantage of the owners knowing me... I had installed and setup their original business computer system when they started the business over 20 years ago. Being 60+ years old, I needed all the advantages I could get to land interviews. Paul, Central OR ------------------------------------------------------------------ This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------